Tag: Crossman 1000

October 26, 2023 – How Many Pumps for Accuracy

October 26, 2023 /

Hopefully, my zeal for experimentation and data translates into interest. I know that not everybody is like me. But, I get excited when people are excited about what they are doing. It really doesn’t matter what the topic is, I find it fascinating when people are into their thing. I may not want to do it, but I enjoy the enthusiasm.

The truth is, I wrote the article “I Hate Pumping” a few weeks ago prematurely. It was always my plan to test accuracy of BBs based on the number of pumps. I should have written after I collected all of the data first but I was in a little bit of a funk. I was getting ready to hunting and was suffering a little bit of brain fatigue. I needed something on the spot and I didn’t have time to do all the work.

My creativity seems to go in spurts. Right now, I am flush with ideas and time is getting a little less constraining. Now that the sun is going down with some evening left, I have time to read, think and tinker in the evening whereas in the summer it seems like it is go until you drop. I have several weeks of topics (that I think are good) in the queue. So, I want to close the loop on this testing for you.

Let me start with what I was trying to accomplish. Using the Crossman 1000 and shooting BBs, what does the number of pumps do to velocity? I did a series on pellets many months ago but I wanted to use BB’s this time because my preferred rifle, the Crossman Optimus only shoots pellets and I have a whole bunch of BBs. After understanding the pump to energy curve and knowing how many pumps would be adequate energy to dispatch pests, I wondered if this was even an accurate platform with BBs.

I found out that pumping the maximum twelve pumps is a chore but it was also pretty wild after the initial five attempts. To boil it all down, is it even worth it to shoot BBs? Looking at the picture, I think that you can see nine pumps is a significant improvement in accuracy over 12, it looks like seven is slightly better, five looks pretty dialed in and three starts to wander again.

This is good news. If the results would have all been like twelve pumps, I would have given up. Five is also a far cry from twelve pumps in the effort department. Looking at the energy data, I am not sure the energy is adequate for pests at five pumps, but that is OK, BBs are far cheaper to shoot if we are just talking about practice and trigger control and I have a lot of them around. The most important thing for practice is that it will hit where you aim.

Of course, now I will not leave things here. I am going to try a new series with my son’s Crossman 760. I did a baseline test months ago with pellets and found that rifle to be vastly inferior to the potential velocity. Ten pumps (the max) was equal to about four pumps on the Crossman 1000. What I am now trying to establish is that is it the velocity that stabilized the BB or is it rifle specific?

That being said, expect another one of these with a new set of data. This time, I promise that I will wait until I have everything completed. But like I said above, I need to do a better job closing the loop with subjects that I introduce. Maybe I should introduce a new category like ‘Results’ to share my conclusion. That will keep me more honest when using it and then I can write the post in a more scientific fashion. I will think on that.

End Your Programming Routine: Based on my results, BBs can be accurate without needing Popeye’s arms. That being said, not all tools are best suited for every job. Where I have settled is that I should be able to adequately shoot BBs with five pumps for practice. Stayed tuned for another analysis on potentially why five pumps is the best.

October 12, 2023 – I Hate Pumping

October 12, 2023 /

Every since I purchased my Crossman Optimus spring piston, air rifle my Crossman 1000 has sat in the corner. I don’t think that there is anything wrong with it but that it is a variable pump rifle. That means to get the same performance (actually less than) from the 1000 to the Optimus, it takes twelve pumps. I know that I am aging, but this wears you me as well as it takes a long time for a follow up shot.

I continue to collect pellet ballistic data, looking for that magic combination of energy between velocity and weight. The other day, I was thinking, I should do some work with the Crossman 1000 because it also shoots BBs. Maybe I can practice even cheaper? Maybe I can burn up those BBs I loaded on day one and haven’t shot since I went to pellets with the Optimus?

I am not going to bore you with more numbers. I find it interesting and maybe if you really want, e-mail me for the results. But, one of my going in theories was that BBs would not be accurate. As I was trying to measure velocities across that 1 1/2″ window, I was struggling. I shot probably 30 shots to get ten measurements. When you have to pump the rifle 12 times with increasing force, it really gets to be a chore.

The scope that comes with the rifle is cheap and barely useable. I do not recommend the Crossman 4×15 that you can purchase for $20. Since mine came with the rifle, I will use it for now until I get fed up with it. The point of that is that it is not easy (or clear) to see through it well. But, from what I could see, it looked like was shooting all over the place. Hence, why it took me so many shots to get measurements.

All of these shots were from a rest with 12 pumps at 10 yards. The ones in the red represent the first 5 shots whereas everything else happened afterwards. It is no wonder I struggled to get measurements with the chronograph.

I started out with a whole series of velocity/energy measurements with BBs and pumps just like I did with pellets. This time I went 3, 5, 7, 9 and 12 pumps. Skipping all of those other intervals saved my arms a lot of movement and I didn’t really care to get that much data. I am pretty sure the velocity curve follows the one that I previously calculated for pellets. The other thing that I did differently was measure the velocity at the target (10 yards). The reason I did that was because I am trying to determine how effective this rifle with BBs really for pest elimination.

I already know that 8 ft/lbs at the muzzle is lethal on pests. The last thing I want is an ineffective tool. After I got all of my measurements, the next thing that I wanted to determine was how accurate is this rifle with BBs anyway. So, I just started shooting at targets. At first, my groupings were pretty tight, then things started to go a little wonky.

By the time I got through my planned magazine, I was struggling to pump the rifle even on the first stroke. After I ran my magazine dry, I tried another test. I simply cocked the bolt and pulled the trigger. Low and behold, it fired. Then I did it again and it fired again. I did it a third time and it was just the thud of the spring.

So, it appears that twelve pumps puts more air in the chamber than is used to drive the BB. This is the cause of the increasing difficulty to charge the rifle after firing. I believe that it is also the cause of increasing inaccuracy. I really don’t know where the line is between expected results and chaos, but I would say five shots is a safe bet since that is where I got my best groups.

I am going to continue this test with other pumps groups. The reason being is that I am trying to determine if it is even worth training marksmanship with this rifle and BBs. Ideally, I would like to know this rifle well enough that I could say, this is where I train and this is where I could use it if need be. After all, an inaccurate rifle is pretty much useless. You don’t do anything for marksmanship or pest elimination and you might shoot something that is not intended.

End Your Programming Routine: The big drawback is the multiple pumps. I am hoping that my data says that 3 pumps is adequate. This would relegate the Crossman 1000 to mostly just target shooting, but it would be worth it for the practice. If the accuracy proves to be a problem, then it may relegate the rifle to the garage sale pile.

September 8, 2022 – ‘Tacticool’ Thursday

September 8, 2022 /

I was reading the literature to see what to expect with the Crossman Legacy 1000. I didn’t actually realize that it is a twelve pump maximum, not a ten pump. Let me tell you, that is a heck of a lot of pumping. In this experiment, I am measuring the velocity of each number of pumps to determine if it at what point is the work of pumping diminishing.

123456
1219399497565618657
2223400504562615659
3226392498568617662
4231400502561616666
5226398493564622664
6220402494568618664
7220396500566611663
8225389499563618669
9232397502559623665
10218398497567613668
224 +/-15397 +/- 12499 +/- 11564 +/- 10617 +/- 11664 +/- 11
values in fps
789101112
1701726752775798812
2700732755781796808
3698727751779799803
4688730760781793802
5695729758771790810
6695729758772797803
7699725763774798811
8696728758773798807
9695724757777795809
10693723757777789811
696 +/- 11727 +/- 8757 +/- 11776 +/- 11795 +/- 11808 +/- 11
values in fps

One thing from the data that is very pleasing is that repeatability is extremely consistent. It is interesting that the standard deviation is very constant throughout the experiment. That means that the rifle is operating the same as well as the ammunition. This data was obtained using the Crossman Wadcutter pellet (7.4 grains) at muzzle velocity.

There is math to actually determine the optimum pump versus velocity return. It involves calculus, so not so simple and therefore I won’t put it in here. Without actually showing the math, I am going to give the answer: two pumps. I have graphed the data to make it much easier to see. The math says that the inflection point of the curve

Despite the fact that two pumps is the optimum efficiency, we probably want to take advantage of the more available velocity. So, this becomes a subjective decision. In my view, the optimum maximum is eight pumps. 727 fps is 90% of the maximum 808 fps which would save 4 additional pumps.

Going back to my point of aim, point of impact discussion a couple of weeks ago the shooter really needs to settle on goals because simply pumping less or changing ammunition can relate this whole conversation moot. What I am implying is missing the target. When shooting at something the size of a squirrel head, an inch makes a difference between hit or miss.

To boil this all down, what I am suggesting is knowing the performance curve allows the shooter to select the desired outcome and subsequently sight in accordingly. Once that is done, then the shooter needs to stick with (or at least check the outcome) of variable changes.

End Your Programming Routine: I promise, this is the last concurrent week of this testing. Next week will be something new. This experiment actually took some work because of all the pumping and there was a lot of math. I am very surprised at how well this curve fit into a logarithmic function. I suppose that means that physics and math really does describe the world. I have always said that math is only interesting if you care about the results and what it says. In this case, I do care about the results, but it is nice to see that math validates how everything works.

September 1, 2022, ‘Tacticool’ Thursday

September 1, 2022 /

So I found more stuff to test, what are you going to do about it? As I pull my son’s Crossman 760 off of the wall, I saw my Daisy 840 looking all lonely. This was my one and only air rifle until about five years ago.

This was the quintessential air rifle of a country boy. My brother and I had the same model. Many a time, a rope was tied across the barrel and the grip and then off on our bikes or trekking through the fields. Our favorite thing to do was take old catalogs and setup on the deck. We would shoot the catalog for half an hour and then leaf through to laugh at what we had hit on the inside pages. We shot things that we were not supposed to but I think that was a rite of passage and made me the rifle shooter I am today.

Time and kid’s ownership was not good to these things. My brother’s broke where the grip was attached to the action turning it into a stockless rifle. Mine, the spot welds broke on the rear sight leaving it more of a guess than an actual rifle. I was able to super glue it for a couple years but that has long since fallen apart and now lost forever. The forearm is also split where the two plastic halves are joined together. So far, it is still usable.

I first realized that it was time for an upgrade when I had a family of racoons living under our kitchen about five years ago. We were eating dinner on our deck and it was in the tree right next to us. I shot it to try and chase it away. When the BB hit it in the chest, the animal brushed the spot where it was hit and slowly climbed out of the tree and sauntered away. I realized that this was not going to work in a pest elimination capacity. That is when I bought the Crossman Legacy 1000.

The Daisy 840 was a single pump BB/pellet rifle. I did some research on this rifle to see if I could learn anything about it. Apparently, it was made between 1978-1986. It advertised 300 fps. My brother’s came with a scope which was broken within a six months, mine did not. I tested it to see how it was going to compare the the 760 and at first, I was only going to use BBs since the magazine was full. I quickly found out that this thing shot all over the place and my trap was not holding BB’s (when it hit where I was aiming).

840 BB840 pellet7601000Optimus
1263180579775944
2307248544781942
3285239540779968
4282265542781936
5264257549771938
6200248541772965
7180223529774940
8242223539773906
9189263552777964
10132230554777953
234 +/- 169238 +/- 76547 +/-40776 +/-11946 +/- 55
All values in fps

All values were measured at the muzzle and each rifle was pumped to the maximum (1 or 10 pumps) using the Crossman 7.4 grain wadcutter pellet. This was an attempt to compare the maximum performance across the spectrum. The thing that struck me was the inconsistency of the the 840.

Before I get too down on the 840, it needs to be said that this rifle is almost 40 years old and hasn’t been well treated. I am considering trying to do some minor seal maintenance by adding some lubricating oil. There has literally nothing ever done in that manner to the rifle.

Despite that, I was a little shocked when I missed the target multiple times standing five feet away. In all of this testing, this is the only occasion where this has occurred. The difference between BBs and pellets is that only pellets are stabilized (and therefore accurate). But, I was capable of hitting targets fifty feet away in one shot as a youth with a BB. My operating assumption is that the wildly varying velocity is causing the accuracy problems, so we will see.

I also had to double cock the action each time I shot a pellet. I am not sure what that problem is. I didn’t seem to have that problem with BB’s and I don’t understand what the different types of ammunition would have to do with the problem. That is a wait and see problem.

End Your Programming Routine: If my relubrication efforts fail, it may be time to end the run of the Daisy 840. There are no serviceable parts, it is missing a rear sight and I can’t trust the accuracy or performance. A single pump is pretty nice for shooting a lot, even if it is not the most powerful tool. But, if you cant keep the shots within the backstop, it is not safe.

August 25, 2022 – ‘Tacticool’ Thursday

August 25, 2022 /

Bonus! I know that I said only one more in this line but I wanted to know something else while I started testing. My son has a Crossman 760 that I was curious how it compared to what I was doing.

The 760 is to prototypical first air rifle. It is affordable and ubiquitous. Most people I knew had one growing up. It can fire BBs or pellets and pumps from 1 to 10 pumps for variable power. Think of it as a value proposition, it is the most bang for the buck.

As all youth’s air rifles do, this particular one has a history. My wife and son bought it at an auction for the private school my kids were attending years ago. They paid probably double what it was worth but they won. My son was very excited at the time. However, it has mostly sat in the corner since the initial outing at the range. Here is the data that I found.

7601000
1579775
2544781
3540779
4542781
5549771
6541772
7529774
8539773
9552777
10554777
Average546 +/- 40776 +/-11
All data in fps

I was surprised to see that the 760 is significantly less powerful than the 1000. This was a new pellet, the Crossman 7.4 grain wadcutter, ten pumps each measuring the muzzle velocity. The data for the 1000 is part of the new data set I am doing in my number of pumps vs. velocity analysis coming next week.

The boxes are long gone. I really don’t know what the published velocity is supposed to be. According to today’s literature the velocity is 350-700 fps for the 760 and 750-1000 fps for the 1000. Those numbers are going to be subject to the weight of the pellet as you have seen from my previous data.

I actually have one more BB gun to look at which I will do in a couple weeks. I haven’t done any testing with BBs but since I was checking the catalog of performance, I was curious. I will talk all about that then.

End Your Programming Routine: I have to say, the 760 is much easier to pump than the 1000. I have a feeling that the longer forearm on the 1000 is an indicator that the air chamber is bigger, hence how to get more velocity. I am much preferring my break barrel spring air rifle to pumping 10 times to get similar velocity. But, for a kid this is a fantasy come true.

August 11, 2022 – ‘Tacticool’ Thursday

August 11, 2022 /

I promise that this topic line is not going to go on forever. Right now, I am am having too much fun and still have too many questions. This week, I am comparing results from Crossman Optimus and the Crossman 1000 using the 7.54grain Hunter pellet. To date, all of my work has been with the Optimus because it is just a better tool. The 10 pump BB/pellet rifle (1000) is a pain in the butt to shoot multiple times.

That being said, I am going to do a pump/velocity test in the future. I want to know if it is really worth pumping 10 times or not because it 5 pumps is almost the same, then I will be more willing to shoot it more consistently. I already know that the point of impact changes with less pumps. This implies a velocity change, but I want to know definitively.

For the record, the Optimus is on the left and the 1000 is on the right of this picture. I wanted to compare as closely as possible so I used the same pellet and the 1000 was pumped to the maximum 10 pumps. The data is below.

Muzzle – Optimus30′ – OptimusMuzzle – 100030′ – 1000
942849752726
946853740708
966866749719
959859748700
953855743699
952870743703
973852752729
947853755700
951868736724
966858737729
964.6 +/- 19.5857.3 +/- 30745.5 +/- 20713.7 +/- 35.6
all values in FPS

The Optimus data is the same data from a couple weeks ago. The 1000 data is all new. I suppose the thing that struck me was that there was not much velocity change over 30 feet. So, I did some comparative analysis below. I think that it all makes sense from what I expected.

% Difference
Optimus muzzle vs 30′10.8%
1000 muzzle vs 30′4.4%
Optimus vs 1000 Muzzle25.9%
Optimus vs 1000 30′18.3%

For fun, I checked a couple other things. What happens if it is over pumped? With 12 pumps at 30′ I got 727, 651 and 771 fps. It looks like the data is all over the place and I didn’t do enough for proper statistical analysis. Maybe there is an overpressure valve? I don’t know and I am not really going to pursue more, I was curious what happened.

Finally, I changed pellets from the Hunter to the Magnum Energy @ 30′ 712, 711, 726 fps. I think those results were the same that I observed in the Optimus. So, that data seems to make sense.

End Your Programming Routine: The truth be told was that I purchased the Optimus because the 1000 was such a pain to shoot repeatedly. All that being said, the Hunter pellet out of the 1000 is potent enough to dispatch cat sized vermin at eight pumps in one shot. My biggest fear was needing a follow-up shot to finish the job and spending 30 seconds reloading. Let us see where the data leads.